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Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 06:44
by lol-o-caust
Mobiesque";p="990255 wrote:Has Been. Its a GREAT album (for what it is). Done with Ben Folds. He does a cover of Blur's 'Common People'
Pulp's.
(sorry - pedantic detail freak and Pulp fan)
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 06:46
by lol-o-caust
stripperm(0)(o)m";p="991225 wrote:My favorite episode of Star Trek was in Next Generation
These different races find pieces to a ancient puzzle that came from the origional lifeform to ever go into space
Everybody wants the other pieces because they think it's a super weapon and it ends up just being a message saying how proud that race is of everybody
That was kwolity! I ended up having a massively long philosophical conversation about that with my stepmum and they never followed up on it!
Should have been a Universe-changing megaplot IMO. Next gen and Voyager were always guilty of hitting the reset button at the end of an episode...
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 07:38
by touchy feely
The Mr John Delusion";p="994626 wrote:Should have been a Universe-changing megaplot IMO. Next gen and Voyager were always guilty of hitting the reset button at the end of an episode...
wasn't really their fault, they were under pressure from networks to be more syndication-friendly
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 08:04
by lol-o-caust
Now is probably a good time to ask - what does that mean? I've heard it used before but don't really understand.
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 08:29
by touchy feely
syndication = random cable networks buy reruns of older shows and play them in sequence
ds9 does not lend itself well to syndication because its one big story arc, so if Joe Blow were to channel surf by, he'd say 'uh, What the fuck is going on?'
whereas TNG or voyager require comparatively minimal backstory so Joe Blow doesn't have to know a whole lot to watch
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 10:01
by Mobiesque
Whilst N-Gen was sometimes very episodic, it never seriously harmed the show's overall story. They never did anything that later became 'untrue', per se, with the exception of perhaps the Tasha Yar / Sela storyline, which was a typical, after-the-fact Star Trek alternate timeline story. Poorly thought out, Introduced with a heavy dose of the usual technobabble fairy dust and a bit of Whoopie Goldberg's "it's always been like this". If they're messing with that sort of causality nonsense, it needs to be an adaptation of one Diane Duane's books. Or any of the novelists that wrote all the great Q books (There are so many. Q is one of the greatest characters ever).
Voyager on the other hand...I can't get over just how horrible that show was. I kept with it for a few seasons but it only ever offended my sensibilities. For syndicate-friendly but fan-repellent, this is the show that did it. For instance, one I caught on TV last night. It was the first of a two-parter. I watched from the start, with at least some understanding of the Voyager story (I think series 3 was where I gave up). All of a sudden, we're instantly in the holodecks (which was always a bad place for an episode. see TNG featuring Moriarty et. al.), where a race of hunters have taken over Voyager and have been running simulations for weeks, using the crew as the hunted. For some reason these hunts are in WWII France. The aliens understand whats going on. The social significance, for some reason, is not lost on them. Tuvoc, the token black Vulcan knows whats going on. 7 of Domestic Violence gets it. Well, you see where I'm going. It's totally accessible for someone who doesn't know the story, but is totally out of comprehension for someone who relies on the story being at all congruent.
Also of note, to add insult to injury: The episode ends with the crew (french resistance) blowing up the Nazi (Prawn lookin' aliens) headquarters. And because the safety switch of the holodeck is turned off, EVERYONE is set to face destruction because troops are about to pour out of the hole of the holodeck and into the ship. Does noone realize they'll cease to exist as soon as they've left the holodeck? They spent seasons laying it on thick that the holographic doctor needs his little portable transmitter to leave sickbay without disappearing. I get the necessity for suspension of disbelief - Thats why I love so much of Star Trek. This is just bad, network-friendly writer error.
As for Deep Space Nine. Loved it, for the most part. The books are some of the best Trek out there. I can't watch the first few seasons anymore, but that's mostly due to the fact I've seen them a million times and a lot of it is - quite daggy. I never want to see Odo turn into a spinning top for his preteen pal ever again. The longer it went on, the grittier it got, as much as Star Trek can. The Maquis, the Jem Hadaar, the Cardassians (great race)? it had it fucking all for a while - They even got Worf! And, forgiving Siddig El Fadil changing his name to Alexander, and then marrying the Kira chick (and having the ugliest baby I've seen in years) and forgiving killing off Dax (forget Gerri of 9, theres the true geek's wank fodder), the main thing that fucking killed DS9 for me was the very ending. Just the same way it's obvious the X-Files writers didn't have a finish point or even a vague idea where the show would go, DS9 did the same. Sisko is what? He's the emissary. Not just that, oh oh, he's blessed by the wormhole people. No no, theres more, now he was put on Earth by them. Oh no, we've changed our minds, in the end, he's actually just one of them. Oh you pious Bajorans.
I guess my point is......Fuck a new Star Trek movie.
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 11:08
by touchy feely
Mobiesque";p="994641 wrote:Whilst N-Gen was sometimes very episodic, it never seriously harmed the show's overall story.
true but i think they could have gone a LONG way towards building something more if they had the chance
the writers said as much on some of the bonus commentary stuff on the DVDs
Mobiesque";p="994641 wrote:7 of Domestic Violence
if you wasted that much time on voyager, its your own fault
Mobiesque";p="994641 wrote:And, forgiving Siddig El Fadil changing his name to Alexander, and then marrying the Kira chick (and having the ugliest baby I've seen in years)
kira getting knocked up ruined one of the greatest asses in TV history
he must never be forgiven for that
but yeah, i cant watch the first few seasons anymore because the acting, outside of sisko and quark, is fucking awful... especially dax, who sounded like a high school student in a dress rehearsal of oliver twist
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 11:45
by lol-o-caust
touchy feely";p="994654 wrote:but yeah, i cant watch the first few seasons anymore because the acting, outside of sisko and quark, is fucking awful... especially dax, who sounded like a high school student in a dress rehearsal of oliver twist
Voyager annoyed me with how fecking professional the crew was, no one ever panicked or went mental. Or how miscast most of them were. Harry Kim was feeble and dull, Tom Paris a rebel? Please? Chakotay had some balls, but got yawnsome dialogue most of the time and I still haven't got enough ways to torture Neelix.
I want that man in perpetual pain. Fecking hate him.
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 12:04
by Mobiesque
touchy feely";p="994654 wrote:Mobiesque";p="994641 wrote:Whilst N-Gen was sometimes very episodic, it never seriously harmed the show's overall story.
true but i think they could have gone a LONG way towards building something more if they had the chance
the writers said as much on some of the bonus commentary stuff on the DVDs
I'll have to see those. I think TNG was very good for the most part (So were TMBG). Looking at any episode of it today it still comes through. Tacky episodes were no doubt tacky when they aired, were definitely dreadful when I saw them as a kiddy and are laughable today. The good episodes? If you're into it they still fucking rule. (See: Anything with Q, most of the Borg episodes sans 'Hugh', Redemption, Sub Rosa, Reunification, All Good Things et tons of others). It had to have exceed expectations. It was the first 'sequel/franchise' Star Trek, noone could have expected so many bastard offspring.
It could have done more? I'll definitely be listening to the writer's view. But it was what it was and generally, it was great.
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 12:22
by touchy feely
The Mr John Delusion";p="994662 wrote:touchy feely";p="994654 wrote:but yeah, i cant watch the first few seasons anymore because the acting, outside of sisko and quark, is fucking awful... especially dax, who sounded like a high school student in a dress rehearsal of oliver twist
Voyager annoyed me with how fecking professional the crew was, no one ever panicked or went mental. Or how miscast most of them were. Harry Kim was feeble and dull, Tom Paris a rebel? Please? Chakotay had some balls, but got yawnsome dialogue most of the time and I still haven't got enough ways to torture Neelix.
I want that man in perpetual pain. Fecking hate him.
im not sure there's a more bland character than harry kim in any star trek series
there's all kinds of blatant, dumb racial crap in voyager
'look, a BLACK vulcan! a CHICK captain! and an asian dude! and a half klingon chick! ehhh? ehhhhhhhhhh??'
and yeah, getting a guy that looks like joel hodgson of mst3k (huge stoner and a really nice guy) as a maquis (whats with the spelling of that btw? are they french canadian?) was shitty casting
Mobiesque";p="994665 wrote:It could have done more? I'll definitely be listening to the writer's view. But it was what it was and generally, it was great.
it mightve been the 'first contact' commentary, i dont remember
i do remember michael piller talking on the DS9 DVDs about wanting to GTFO of TNG so he could do some really dark shit with some continuity from ep to ep
yeesh, i could talk about star trek for days
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 12:37
by Mobiesque
I'm glad. So could I.
Read any of the books? This is where thee gold is.
Posted: 19 Nov 2008, 15:36
by touchy feely
i have read zero books
recommend some so i can throw them on my gigantic 'to read' pile
Posted: 20 Nov 2008, 02:38
by Mobiesque
Haven't read many of the originals:
Wounded Sky by Diane Duane - Crystal Spider-thing scientist on board the Enterprise tries out a new type of drive which melts reality.
Spock's World by Diane Duane - Vulcan wants to secede from the Federation, Spock, Sarek and the gang try to stop it. Lots of history of the Vulcans in this one.
Next Generation:
Metamorphosis by Jean Lorrah - This is a twin universe "what if Data were human?" scenario. The answer? They'd all die. Good stuff.
Vendetta by Peter David - Pretty sure this was the one with Guinan's sister wanting to eradicate all the
. Very dark.
Q-In-Law by Peter David - Q and Lwaxana Troi fall in love. Hilarity ensues.
Imzadi by Peter David - This one gets twelve thumbs up. The story of Riker and Deanna and how they met on Betazed. Flash forward to today. Someone kills Diana and Riker travels across time and space to get her back. An essential read.
Dark Mirror by Diane Duane - Great book with the 'evil universe' counterparts (Goatees in the original series, lesbian Kira in DS9). The Picards switch universes and it's up to the good one to get back to his own universe alive. Also has really great descriptions of the dolphin-like alien who works within a portable bubble. Another must-read.
Q-Squared by Peter David - Probably the best of the Q books, it switches between 'Track A', 'Track B' and 'Track C' parallel universes and features Q trying to mentor Trelane (The Squire of Gothos from TOS).
Now, DS9
Fallen Heroes by Dafydd Ab Hugh - This is about as dark and gruesome as Trek gets. Aliens come to the station and massacre everyone. Quark and Odo however, are trapped in time and come out unharmed 3 days after the carnage, they and Jake then have to somehow fix it all. There are numerous flashbacks of the massacre and futile resistance as they come across their friends (often blasted into little bits) bodies. Loved this book.
The Way Of The Warrior by Diane Carey - This is when worf shows up. It became an episode in around season 4 I Think. Gotta love the Klingons.
Objective: Bajor by John Peel! - Bajor under threat of destruction (again). Kira and Sisquo to the rescue. John Peel was a wicked writer.
Well, that should be more than enough. None of them should take more than a few hours to read. I reckon you'd have the most fun with Fallen Heroes.
Posted: 20 Nov 2008, 16:18
by Dress Barn
The Mr John Delusion";p="994626 wrote:stripperm(0)(o)m";p="991225 wrote:My favorite episode of Star Trek was in Next Generation
These different races find pieces to a ancient puzzle that came from the origional lifeform to ever go into space
Everybody wants the other pieces because they think it's a super weapon and it ends up just being a message saying how proud that race is of everybody
That was kwolity! I ended up having a massively long philosophical conversation about that with my stepmum and they never followed up on it!
Should have been a Universe-changing megaplot IMO. Next gen and Voyager were always guilty of hitting the reset button at the end of an episode...
i always thought that episode would have been an amazing video game
I also love the Voyager one where they could burn this aliens gods as a source of fuel to get home.
Mobiesque";p="994641 wrote:
Q is one of the greatest characters ever).
I always been a huge Q flag waver
Posted: 21 Nov 2008, 05:40
by lol-o-caust
They need to make a movie with an appearance from Q.
Something hugely scaled, with major plot twists and consequences. Maybe an anti-Q or something really fecking evil.
Like me.
Posted: 21 Nov 2008, 12:06
by touchy feely
the entire TNG series more or less revolved around Q, so i can understand why they've avoided him in any movie
but still, yeah... id much rather have a Q movie than crap like 'insurrection' and 'nemesis'
mobes, i will check out the DS9 books first, and go from there... thanks
'fallen heroes' sounds bad ass
Posted: 21 Nov 2008, 12:09
by touchy feely
its not so much as Q is awesome as how everyone else reacts to him
'i am NOT a merry man!'
'i dont need your fantasy women!'
Posted: 21 Nov 2008, 12:10
by Mobiesque
You appear to bearded second in commands and create scantily clad women and cigars? Niiice.
There have been plenty of oppositions to Q. He's had the continuum angry at him numerous times. Q-In-Law has Lwaxana (with Q powers) treating him like a cheating lover and theres also that architect chick (that Picard fancied) who turns up in DS9. He's done the universal battle before, the best is when he's out-done by someone who doesn't give a shit that he's omnipotent. I've just never gotten why Picard hated him so much. If Q wanted to hang out? Fuck yes. Treat him right he'll make your race the most powerful in the universe AND he'll gladly get you laid.
I too would like to some day be referred to as "The God Of Lies".
Posted: 05 Jan 2009, 15:08
by Dress Barn
Posted: 05 Jan 2009, 17:45
by Mobiesque
Borg porn.
Awesome.
Posted: 07 Jan 2009, 01:18
by Grotocult
Stone Gossard is a Pulp fan
Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 15:34
by Mr John
erutlucorgga wrote:Stone Gossard is a Pulp fan
Did you miss a meeting?
Posted: 28 Jan 2009, 21:41
by Rado
As much as i
hate Star Trek, this looks OK.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ScHxUopDlKc
Oh, and Pulp are/were a great band
Posted: 29 Jan 2009, 01:27
by Mary Hinge
when you come to Sydney praps, I will tell you my 'the day I met Pulp' story
Posted: 29 Jan 2009, 08:46
by The Rambam
Janet: Since when do you hate pulp?
Tommy: Ever since they started takin' the time to take the goddamn pulp out. Since then, okay?
Janet: Honey, I'm sorry. I didn't know you had a thing with the pulp.
Tommy: Yeah. I hate all pulp. I hate orange juice pulp. I hate that stupid British band named Pulp. Pulp Fiction. Quentin Tarantino, what's with that goddamn head by the way. Is that not the biggest head in the history of heads? He turns sideways it's like you're lookin' at a map of the New Jersey coastline. And Kill Bill what a piece of shit. And then there's a Kill Bill 2 what's that about? Jesus Christ.
Janet: Tommy, the kids.
Tommy: Kids, when you grow up don't see either one of the Kill Bill's they both suck, okay?